Vision and Values

For culture advisor Jay Doran, success is founded on trusted leadership and timeless principles

Jay Doran is known to many in the insurance and financial services industry for his five-star-rated The Culture Matters Podcast, in which he talks with business leaders across different sectors about how to build a strong and healthy organization. In more than 750 episodes of the show, he has spoken with executives in real estate, mortgage banking and construction, as well as insurance and financial services.

Named in National Mortgage Professional Magazine’s 40 Under 40 list in 2019, Doran has been dubbed “a thought-provoking culture guru” by one listener. Korsgaden Insights turned the tables by asking him a series of questions about the importance of developing a healthy work culture, a critical issue for the insurance and financial services industry as it addresses business, technology and other changes.

The interview has been edited for clarity and length.


Korsgaden Insights: What is culture?

Jay Doran: Well, it’s more than just the values on the wall. It’s who are the leadership? What’s inspiring them? What’s the narrative that’s driving the organization? What’s the story? What symbolism is representing it?

KI: Do you think leaders, in organizations big or small, recognize how important culture is?

JD: The word can be talked about but it’s often a little abstract. Culture is people and there is nuance there. It’s about people and it’s about leadership and it’s about values and it’s about story and it’s about the language we use and the symbolism that represents what we’re doing. Culture is not bean bags and pizza parties. If those things naturally occur, it’s a consequence of people actually having relationships at work, which is a consequence of sacrifice, hard work, building relationships, working through the tougher times. But when a company has low trust and there isn’t mutual respect, no pizza party is going to get everybody to get along. That’s not culture; that’s social engineering.

KI: What have you learned by working with CEOs and executive teams that can help our “Main Street” people—those who are working “belly to belly” with clients—in regard to culture, whether they have three people or 30 working with them?

JD: Belly to belly is culture. The world is getting flatter, so for the “Main Street” folks there’s such an unbelievable opportunity for someone with two people on their team to impact and actually make change and change the narrative of the corporation that, in the past, had all the information and, in turn, all the power.

KI: What might that look like?

JD: If you’re belly to belly and you’re building your culture, it’s all about your customers. They come first because culture is a consequence of customer service. If we’re belly to belly, it’s a relationship and either we’re investing into that relationship or we’re not. Do I spend time reaching out? Do I write notes? What are my relationships really like with my customers? And what is my relationship really with the authorities, the powers that be that provide resources to me?

KI: What can a small agency focus on to develop a healthier culture?

JD: Some things never change. The question is, are we realizing we’re being influenced by the world? We may have gone away from the basics because we’re looking for the secret sauce. For example, people say, “SEO is important; are you searchable? Are you Googleable? Do you have a social media profile? Are you on LinkedIn?” They’ll say build a personal brand, be online and be noticeable. [But] that isn’t necessarily where your customers are looking; that could be where your competitors are looking. [Management expert] Peter Drucker said the purpose of the business is to create a customer. So if you’re doing all these social media things but not actually picking up the phone and calling customers or meeting with them in person or on Zoom and having a place in your heart where you would gift them something because you value the relationship—whether it’s a letter or sending them something that meant something to you . . . if you’re not doing the basic tasks of a salesperson that also develops an authoritative relationship with their customer because you have information they don’t have, then all that new stuff, the SEO, the social media, all of that that could actually just kind of disjoint someone that’s succeeding away from their actual customers and their actual business. So, the first thing is a self-awareness exercise: What are we actually doing that is working and where are we actually in our business today? Am I doing the basics before I add all these other things? From a culture perspective, I think we’re losing sight at scale . . . we’re focusing on the shiny objects versus the human connection.

KI: What’s a challenge you see facing businesses in this current climate?

JD: People need leadership in times of change and uncertainty. But how do you follow where you don’t trust? There are two types of business owners: those that work hard and those that think they do and say they do and don’t. You want to get around the former.

KI: In every business, big or small, there are people who are just tired or stalled in some way. What do we do with them to help them get them back on course?

JD: Responsibility and accountability get mixed up and I think when that happens it leads to a lot of symptoms. Responsibility is modeled in behavior. It’s experienced through the senses. It’s the adage, “The rules are for thee and not for me.” That’s a consequence of irresponsibility at the top of the hierarchy. So, on a practical level, if I have got five people on my team, am I having the real conversations with them? There are some conversations that are best one-on-one and others in a group—as a training, not singling people out and creating shame and embarrassment. Am I spending the one-on-one time to get to know people, to understand where they’re at and what their goals are and what their desires are?

KI: But does there come a time when you need to ask somebody to leave if you have given them the tools they need and they’re not lining up with the culture of the organization, if they’re not aligned?

JD: Yes, but I’ll add another element. Sometimes these people are giving us free survey feedback that we’re not hearing for whatever reason—we’re not ready or it’s a season of angst. You know, the customer reviews that we don’t want to read.

KI: What advice do you have for people on recruiting the agent of the future?

JD: [First, we need to look at ourselves as leaders]. Are we showing up like we once did? That’s where leadership comes in. You really need to be people that are willing to sacrifice and show the way when it’s not easy and it’s really hard. People need hope in the tough times. As far as recruiting, I think when money’s cheap and everything’s going up, organizations almost [treat people] like they’re trading cards. They’re trading talent and they’re paying for talent; they’re bonusing everyone. All of that has a longer-term consequence on the culture because there’s no real relationships; they’re based on monetary exchange. The relationship started with a transaction; it didn’t start with a mutual respect and trust as a consequence of believing in the person. . . And so when we talk about recruiting, [we need to ask], “Do I want someone to come into my life because they value the money I could give them or they value the experience of what we’re building together and where we can collectively be 10 years from now?” Personally, I am thinking 20 years out with my client partners.

KI: It sounds like a lot comes down to leadership?

JD: I don’t have to recruit, to convince people to follow me, if I’m worth following. And that goes back to the vision, the mission, the values and living them out. Not this BS that I’ve seen where it’s all, “The values are this . . . ” [Mere talk] gives culture a bad rap. “Everyone needs to live this,” while the person that’s doing all that talking and pontificating, they’re hanging out not doing any of it. They’re only interested in the culture because it’s a way to get people to do what they have zero care to do themselves. And guess what they are: they are targets for people to go run their companies. If you’re interested in the topic of culture and it’s about everybody else, you’ve got to figure out why you’re doing what you’re doing in the first place.

KI: Where is business going and what do our readers need to be thinking about in developing their business culture?

JD: In dealing with multiline products, there’s a spirit of a collaboration that builds goodwill with a human being. So if the robots took it all over, I would have those relationships. I become a mechanic and down the street is a line for Jay’s Auto Body . . . We’ve lost something in our world where we have neighbors, and we want to succeed with them. I think that is a transcendent philosophy that is part of human thriving. I think there’s something beautiful in that and I would say keep going with that . . . ask yourself, “Who am I introducing my relationships to? And how am I helping them?” Do things like this and people will naturally want to work with you.